R. Lee Ermey's SOUND OFF Forum

[shamrocks]

I came across this intersting story on another web site whose link is below --as well as the first part of the story.. The entire story is too long to post here but is interesting reading at the link below and provokes some thought--maybe we should leave Iraq, if they will not help themselves, why should we continue there??? I have to admit I am beginning to think it's time we left there. I also heard a report that some of the new Iraqi army had been planning a coup recently to get rid of the new civilian govt.
http://www.hownowcow.com/news/news.htm


When the locals won't help themselves, it is understandable for Americans to wonder why we should help them....

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Los Angeles Times
September 20, 2006
Pg. 1

No One Dares To Help

The wounded die alone on Baghdad's streets. An offer of aid could be your own death sentence, an Iraqi reporter writes.



Because this account of daily life in Baghdad reveals where the writer lives, his name is not being used to protect his safety. He is a 54-year-old Iraqi reporter in The Times' Baghdad Bureau.

BAGHDAD — On a recent Sunday, I was buying groceries in my beloved Amariya neighborhood in western Baghdad when I heard the sound of an AK-47 for about three seconds. It was close but not very close, so I continued shopping.

As I took a right turn on Munadhama Street, I saw a man lying on the ground in a small pool of blood. He wasn't dead.

The idea of stopping to help or to take him to a hospital crossed my mind, but I didn't dare. Cars passed without stopping. Pedestrians and shop owners kept doing what they were doing, pretending nothing had happened.

I was still looking at the wounded man and blaming myself for not stopping to help. Other shoppers peered at him from a distance, sorrowful and compassionate, but did nothing.

I went on to another grocery store, staying for about five minutes while shopping for tomatoes, onions and other vegetables. During that time, the man managed to sit up and wave to passing cars. No one stopped. Then, a white Volkswagen pulled up. A passenger stepped out with a gun, walked steadily to the wounded man and shot him three times. The car took off down a side road and vanished.

No one did anything. No one lifted a finger. The only reaction came from a woman in the grocery store. In a low voice, she said, "My God, bless his soul."

[Sensei Ern]

I am not planning on reading the article, so i am not responding directly to it.

When we got the victory over Japan, had we pulled out, they would have just started up again with the same heirarchy structure and we would have been seen as weak. They would have regrouped, and harbored revenge in their hearts until they delivered it to us.

When we defeated Germany, had we pulled out, it would have been cast into a poverty so terrible that it would have gave cause for another Hitler to rise. Extreme poverty and economic oppression was a major driving cause of Hitler's rise to power.

A soldier, recovering at Walter Reed told me last week, "We should not leave Iraq until the job is done. Otherwise, my injuries, my friends' deaths, and the deaths of three thousand others will be for nothing."

Sorry, I just can't let him down. The only time we should consider leaving Iraq is when we have lost so many men that our own country's land is in danger to falling from invasion.

[shamrocks]

There is one huge difference between Iraq and Germany and Japan after WW2. They had surrendered and there were no extremist groups running around blowing up themselves and others indiscriminately. Our occupation troops were safe as well as the populations from any attacks. How you define "finishing the job" makes a huge difference in Iraq as well. Is it when all the terrorists are killed, is it when they have a constitution and government in place, or something else? They do have a new government in place and constitution.
I am in favor of killing every terrorist we can find over there, but getting rid of every single one or every single group is an impossible task. I have been a supporter of this war and getting rid of a brutal dictator because I am convinced he did have WMDs and ties to terror organizations in spite of all the liberal whining we now hear. I am just throwing this out for discussion...when is the job finished? Love to hear others ideas.

and one other thing...the article was fron the LA Times but posted on the website
hownowcow.com which is a site run by a Marine Corps Colonel who is now editiing the Joint Force Quarterly Journal for the Joint Chiefs of Staff by National Defense University

[DysfunctionalVeteran]

shamrocks @ 30th September 2006, 13:17 wrote:

There is one huge difference between Iraq and Germany and Japan after WW2. They had surrendered and there were no extremist groups running around blowing up themselves and others indiscriminately.

Actually, there were. Just not to this extent.


My opinion, for what it's worth; is that the reason we're having this much trouble is because we took the easy way out after Gulf I. And after a bunch of other situations both before and after.

I personally believe in the mission. Maybe that's because I actually understand what the mission is. Is it cynical for me to say that?


What we are seeking in Iraq is a long term solution to a long term problem. That's the only way to handle a situation like this.

I think we might have been better off if we fully imposed a govt on them and included a clause that the Iraqi's could convene a new constitutional convention 10 years after we left.

But that's not what we did, so now we have to work with what we've got.

From what I hear, most of the country is doing MUCH better. I don't know that to be true from personal observation, just second-hand information.


This mess wont seem like it was worth it until it's been over for a long enough period of time. Long enough for the results to spread further than Iraq.

Until then, I'm just going to keep believing, because I know that in the long run; Freedom is the only long term solution to what ails mankind.

[Sin Khan]

What Americans are finally starting to realize is that there is more involved here than in the past. You know what it really is but you, like the media, woln't say what it really is. It is called Islam.

You refuse to see this religion for what it is and the media refuses to expose the cold hard truths of it.

You never hear what they say in the mosque, but you never wonder why.
You never hear what is actually written in the Quran. It is just a few they say instead
You never hear about the laws that they vote for, you just hear that we are giving them self government.

Do you know why it has become civil war in Iraq? It is becuase of Islam. Do you want to know why no one helped the man? It is becuase of Islam. Do you want to know why they continue to fight against us? Well, you can take a guess here, it is because of Islam.

We are trying to give uncivilized, cultists, totolitarians self government. It doesn't work. It hasn't worked in the past and it was foolhardy to think that it would work now. Remember, we left sadam in power after the first gulf war for a Reason! Now, after a bitter lesson in futility, people are starting to learn why.

Do we need to leave Iraq? Yes, we never should have went there in the first place. I have said this for years here and have gotten only trouble for my statements. But all the time, I had said, this place is not like germany (which was Christian) or Japan (which was budhist). No, this is Iraq and it is totolitarian muslim. Why do you think Colin Powel stepped down? It is becuase he was the one who said durring the last Gulf War that we should not take out sadam. he was right then, and it is still right today. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Do not cast your pearls beofre swine. If people had taken more time to realize what Islam really is, then we would have made the same decision about Iraq this time, that we did last time, and that was to keep him without a military and no fly zone and just bomb the place at will when we feel like it.

[catchaser]

In my opinion,

If and when WE the Coalition, leave iraq, it will
be overtaken by the militants. Iran will swallow up iraq and the other arab countries eventually.
YES the dreaded domino effect, in a few years the arab countries most likely combine into one mass having a few "leaders" and these guys will
make hitler look like a boy scout !
Ill leave it to your imagination on what will be in
store for the rest of the world, they wont even have to use nukes, just turn off the oil,
Think about new orleans, that will have been a
day in the park, compared to what will happen
when the oil stops,, I went thru 1973 arab oil embargo, Now we depend on their oil TWICE as much as then, Civilazation, Goodbye !
No I think we better keep the few arab countries that are our friends safe, as long as we can. And the rest of the Free Civilized World
better wake up and get it together !
I dont agree with people that President Bush made a mistake, It was only a matter of a short time before insane hussane was going to call for arab unity against US and Israel, if he was anything , he WAS a very good manipulater !
I still say, the sooner they put insane hussane out of our misery , the better !


Another thing, 8 years of incompetant foreign policy by our Pal, President Clinton
left President Bush in a Very Bad Position.
President Clinton had , what,, 10 chances to "get" bin laden before he helped
start this big mess with holy war bull, twisting a religion into a killing monster!

We better Pray the next President has the ballz President Bush Has !
so that rules out hillary.
Whoever it is, and I feel sorry for him, he better keep us in the hunt,
and i hope he finds a way to get a draft going , because we are going
to need it !
Im not worried , its only a matter of time before the Scumbag militants
do something really stupid, and really fire up the patriotic spirit here !

I just wish it didnt take something like that to wake everybody back up !


,,,,

[Sensei Ern]

shamrocks @ 2006-09-30, 13:17 wrote:

I am just throwing this out for discussion...when is the job finished? Love to hear others ideas.

The job is finished when the President says it is finished. He is the CiC of the miltary. I voted to give him the authority to determine the use and end of use.

Discussion is fine, but a call for withdrawal is wrong. It calls into question whether our constitution was structured correctly.

[Batman47]

I'm for fighting, not loosing, but Iran must be dealt with if were to win. Iran has vowed to help Iraq with their security what ever that means.

When you kill a snake, you don't cut the tail off.

Where are the boarder navy flights making sure arms from Iran don't make it to Iraq

Fight this dam war with all thy might or bring em home and protect the boarders of the U. S.

Clean out that city if you have to evacuate everyone house by house

Get the job done.

[Steel On Target]

I know the military's not a democracy, but if the vast majority of our military people over there think that it's worth it and that we should stay, then that's good enough for me.

[Batman47]

That's why I'm behind our President and troops, but Iran must become more supportive toward world order and peace

Just finished this blog http://eqneedf.spaces.live.com

[Snafu]

Do we need to leave Iraq? Yes, we never should have went there in the first place.


Ill be nice and just say Bullshit. Madass Sadamn was a threat to his people and the World. We need to get past the reasons for Invading Iraq (simply a political question now) and move onto the solving the problem. Too many are quick to say we dont belong there, we need to pull our troops out and other such crap. We need to finish what we started or face returning. Furthermore, dont think for one damn second that simply because you have cable you have more intell then the President.

[KentuckyGirl68]

Quote:

There is one huge difference between Iraq and Germany and Japan after WW2. They had surrendered and there were no extremist groups running around blowing up themselves and others indiscriminately.

Yes there was violence in both place long after the war was over, it was just not plasterd all over every newspaper and every television station 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
People think this is so much different only because of the media coverage of the situation.
During and after WWII we actually hung journalist who reported the types of things they get away with these days.
Examples for hanging a reporter.... Anti American talk, making us out to be the bad guy, sympathy for the enemy and leaking classified information.
The violence in Iraq is something we have seen before the terrorist just use different methods. The only real difference is the reporting.
Because of that we have a lot of people in this country and all over the world who think that Iraq has no chance.
If we leave they have no chance and we are setting ourselves up to be sitting ducks for the terrorist. If we stick it out like we did after WWII they will have a chance at real freedom just like Germany, Italy and Japan. Look at how long we have been in those places. How long did it take for those places to become stable after the war was over.
Doesn't anyone think about that when they make statement about WWII?
Evidently not.

[Batman47]

Who's to say it's not WWII all over gain. They learned there tactics from the Hitler party and they want to kill Jews, and dominate the world.

Fight and fight and fight em.

There are grave and great cost to war. That's why you must fight to win, and be as fast as you can about it, while being effective, which often takes time.

According to a recent VA study, more than one-third of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans seeking medical treatment from the Veterans Administration report symptoms of stress or other mental disorders. This represents a tenfold increase in the last eighteen months. The dramatic jump in cases is causing concern among some veterans groups that VA may not be able to meet the demand.

Psychologists have said all deployed servicemembers will encounter stress during their deployments. Physical signs of stress may include upset stomach, vomiting, muscular contractions, sweating, shakiness, tension, disorientation, vision problems, hyperventilation, exhaustion, urinary frequency and diarrhea. Emotional signs of stress include feeling anxious or agitated, guilt, fear, anger, grief, general loss of emotional control, depression, emotional numbing, and feeling abandoned or lost. Seek professional help if you experience prolonged isolation from friends, anger, irritability, depression that does not decrease with time, frequent suicidal thoughts and alcohol or drug abuse.

Free Online Military Benefits Education Seminar

University Alliance is offering a free online Education Benefits seminar to servicemembers and veterans on November 1st at 6:30 pm EST. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer, Terry Howell will explain the GI Bill and how to use it in conjunction with tuition assistance to get the most out of your education benefits. Register now. http://www.iian.ibeam.com/events/bisk001/20248

Legislation Increases Dependents' Education Benefits

Chairman of the House Committee on Veterans Affairs, Rep. Steve Buyer (R-Ind.) recently introduced the Disabled Warriors’ Family Education Act of 2006. This bill will allow spouses and dependent children to access their Survivors’ and Dependents’ Education Assistance, under chapter 35 of title 38, United States Code, prior to the severely injured servicemember being discharged from active duty. Once the servicemember receives a VA rating stating that their injuries are permanent and total in nature the servicemember’s spouse and college-aged dependent children may begin their education during the servicemember’s convalescence period, which in some instances may be two years.

Hiring Heroes Paves Road to Jobs

In its second year, the Hiring Heroes program has helped more than 1,000 injured servicemembers and their families connect with potential employers. Hiring Heroes is co-sponsored by The Office of the Secretary of Defense, DoD’s Military Severely Injured Center and Monster.com, a networking hub for current and former military people, defense workers and their families. For more information about Hiring Heroes events, call Karen Hannah, Hiring Heroes program manager, at (888) 363-4872 or e-mail her at Karen.Hannah@cpms.osd.mil .

Injury Insurance Surprise

The new Traumatic Injury Protection under Servicemembers’ Group Life Insurance (TSGLI) is still referred to as “Wounded Warrior Insurance” by proponents who pushed it through Congress last year with surprising speed. But for injuries incurred after Nov. 30, 2005, the phrase “wounded warrior” fails to capture the breadth of TSGLI. That is because any servicemember, active or reserve, who has Servicemembers’ Group Life Insurance (SGLI) and suffers a traumatic injury can be eligible for the trauma pay. For more information, read the article on the Military.com website at http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,114408,00.html.

PS

SOME OF THESE TOPICS CAN BE PLACED IN THE PROPER VA SECTION IF THERE NOT ALREADY THERE

I POSTED THEM TO SHOW EVERYONE THERE ARE THOSE BATTLING for our vets effected by our present war on tearor

[Batman47]

Baghdad locked down, U.S. military suspect Sunni politician's guard http://www.fox6.com/news/world/story.aspx?content_id=3BBAC340-A031-4899-A6C8-377 B2A40274D

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A nervous normality returned to Iraq's capital on Sunday after a 24-hour curfew imposed after U.S. troops arrested a top politician's bodyguard suspected of a plot to bomb the heavily fortified government compound.
http://www.topix.net/content/reuters/2356815172382415458539866725560305771370?th readid=E2T6L6A0B99KJ1NB

[Batman47]

BAGHDAD, Iraq — Although most of the focus has been on rebuilding the Iraqi Army and Police, the Iraqi Air Force is slowly beginning to stand on its own.

TAJI, Iraq — As Iraqi forces take over more and more operations, Coalition forces are finding themselves taking a back seat to teaching and training Iraqi troops.

BAGHDAD, Iraq — Iraqi and Coalition leaders met with Arabic and Western press to discuss Operation Together Forward, the ongoing joint effort between the Iraqi Army, the Iraqi Police, the National Police and Coalition forces.

BAGRAM AIR BASE, Afghanistan - The Air Force-led Bagram Provincial Reconstruction team officially started a new road system Sept. 28 in the Kapisa province that will connect all districts and the provincial capitol.

This update has stories on Coalition Forces killing terrorists, the Rhino bus, Iraqi Army and Coalition Forces finding two weapons caches, Iraqi Security Forces conduct an air assault and an update on Operation Together Forward.

20 Iraqi policemen receive training from 25th ID Soldiers. They improved defensive positions on the Adala Police Station, part of regular training with C Co, 2nd Bn, 35th Inf Reg to help strengthen skills and continue to emerge as a self-sufficient force.
http://www.centcom.mil/sites/uscentcom1/default.aspx

AND THEN THERE IS THIS poll, done for University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes, found:

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,115120,00.html

Iraqis Want U.S. Troops Out